Fiat Ducato vs Mercedes Sprinter camper

Am a fairly content owner of a Hymer Fiat B564 but am talking myself in to a Merc S650. I have discussed the pros and cons of this with a couple of MHomers and heard that the Sprinter chassis is inferior on the road compared to the Fiat Ducato, especially with side winds. Is this a real issue or is the reality little difference between them? Thanks.

I understand that the Sprinter chassis more often needs Airrides to give an acceptable ride than a Ducato or Alko one.

Dave

A tough one to answer unless you have tried both on similar models, ignoring build quality and reliability I tend to think the Fiat is better or rather the Fiat with the Al-Ko chassis. Yes the Merc is quite soft and does have a tendency to roll but this can be overcome by fitting air-ride suspension units for about £400. The other disadvantage I see, is the Merc is rear wheel drive. You could argue it handles better on soft ground but the drive shaft runs down the centre of the underneath of the van. On my van (not a Hymer) this means the fresh water tank has had to be placed behind the rear axle which can be a pain when trying to spread load. It is all too easy to overload the back axle. I also assume it must be a hinderance with any fitted false floor? I can only suggest you look at the layout carefully.

For me, when I change it will be a tough decision as to which chassis to go for because I have certainly found the Merc reliable and with the air-rides fitted, a pleasure to drive.

peedee

I have a similar problem at work, I drive ambulances... mainly Sprinter based, but we did also have ducato's. Comparing the two, the Fiat did handle better, but was not a patch on the build quality and durability of the Merc's. Our mercs have air suspension fitted, which does help with the handling. The latest 5 cylinder diesel Mercs are fantastic... loads of pulling power and sound awesome! Shame about the fuel bill though which is definetly more than Merc's 4 cylinder version. As for cross winds, they both get caught, as they are large like motorhomes, and to be honest I never noticed whether one was better than the other in that respect.

If I had the choice, I'd go for the durability and quality of the Merc... Remember, ambulances get "driven hard" and the Merc's never grumble, where as the fiat was always in the garage. We have Merc's that have done 350k on the same engine and still drive well! The Fiat Ducato's had a maximum of 180k on them, and they went to the knackers yard (ebay).

Now the funny bit about what I just said... my motorhomes a Fiat Ducato based one... he he... but I did say "given the choice id have the Merc", and I didnt really have a choice as I was on a limited budget. But im hoping my next mh will be have the three pointed star on the front.

Thanks for info on Mercedes base everyone. Food for thought when changing the MH.

Hi,
I don't think anyone could argue that the new Merc. engine is probably the superior in terms of longlife (if properly maintained using the correct filters and oil). Very few MH's do 100,000 miles though in their entire life. I believe they are more thirsty if you use the power.

However, the points that have been made about ride and drive shaft are important ones for a MH. Rear wheel drive is an advantage occasionally. The interference with the space underneath is a big snag when trying to get gas tanks, etc fitted. It also raises the floor level.

To have to pay out £400 immediately to get a new 'van to ride properly on top of the other points would certainly make me think three times. At least part of the problem is that the wheels are too close together, as fitted for white van man.

IMHO they are still noisier than Fiats too.

Hi,

the german ADAC automobill club make a test with 4 mh. with different chassis:
Fiat, MB. Sprinter, Ford Transit and Renault Master from Hannover to North Cap and back over 7.000 km.
The Sprinter chassis become the last nota for driving in slalom because the direction is to direct and the brightness between the axle, 10 cm to small as the 3 other chassis.
The new Sprinter are now equiped with the ESP ( Electronic Stability Program).
The best noted in the test was the Renault Master...
The new FIAT Ducato who comes next year will have that system too.

for info,

duc

Hi Duc

I think I found this report on the ADAC site (AA). The MB was ahead in all test aspects but performed badly on the slalom (imagine MMM doing a slalom test!!), so badly, it was enough to bring down the overall score to last. But as you say with ESP (fitted as standard after 2002) this would not be an issue, so that being the case the rest of the test showed the MB in a good light.

Tim

Transit ESP

Howdy,

If "ESP" is the same as "electronic brake-force distribution" the rear wheel drive Transit is available with it. It is an option but many new Transit based motorhomes have it fitted. It also gives the advantage of traction control by preventing one wheel from spinning on a slippery surface.

Pugwash.

This from memory because my car with ESP is now nearly 8 years old. Electronic Stability Programme is a set of sensors linked to a microcomputer that can activate brakes individually and in combination as well as overriding the throttle. The sensors are steering wheel rotation, lateral acceleration, yaw rate as well as the normal wheel rotation sensors for anti-lock braking. When the resultant "turn rate" falls sufficiently short of the demanded turn-rate as a result of impending skidding, the appropriate brake(s) are activated to pull the car into the turn (rather than an even fore-aft braking axis) and the engine power/torque is reduced.

Just like anti-lock braking and Mercedes Brake-Assyst (which puts 100% braking on when it thinks you mean it) it gets it right 99% of the time and acts before you realise anything is untoward.

Dave

ESP

Thanks for the explanation Dave. ESP sounds like a pretty good thing to have fitted to a motorhome. My Transit has it fitted, but I don't think it's operated yet. (But then, would I know!). Actually, I hope it never operates in anger. I would imagine a twin-wheeled Transit with ESP operating as traction control would be the next best thing to four wheel drive on a slippery surface(?).

Regards,
Pugwash.

Thanks to all for the advice. Seems to confirm what we all know - every MH is a compromise.

My Fiat broke down in Scotland recently - 10 months old and the Air Conditioning compressor failed, lots of noise and smoke and had to have it towed back to civilisation to get it looked at!!

Think I'm MB bound.

Malc

Hi Gasman2001
My present motorhome is a Hymer S 700 (Merc)
My previous M/H was a Hymer B 644 (Fiat)

Which is the best------ The Merc "by a long way"
It is a much better engine. I have only done about 20000 miles in it
The only time it has been to a garage was for a service
The ride O.K I don't drive above 80 klm , but it drives better than the fiat
I am a very happy motorhomer
Ousty

Hi

I have owned both Mercs and one fiat, If you had owned both you would not even ask or consider a Fiat.

Merc = Rolls Royce of Vans, nothing else comes close, I have an ex service bus with high mileage and starts runs as sweet as a nut, no smoke

Fiat = Heap of trouble, weak gearboxes, expensive parts, if they can manage to send you right part, poor electrics, poor back up, front wheel drive.

Hands free mobile? no problem in a Merc, noise as always been way to high in Fiat (though must admit Duccato is better than Iveco)

As Topic....more or less!

Don't forget the Renault Master!

Ken ..........with Wanderwagon3.

Sprinter v Fiat

I've had a Fiat and a Peugeot - both Sevel chassis - which is why I now have a Merc.

We had Airides fitted to improve handing at roundabouts etc, and now the ride is flexible AND direct.

Better that then having your fillings bashed out by the jarring of the Sevel chassis and being deafened by the engine noise....

But I'm not biased

Smick

I had a Sevel based unit but did not suffer with the same problems as Smick. 5 trouble free years and a very smooth ride.

are the twin wheeled mercedes 416 any more stable, or do they need the air supsension ??

how did the twin wheeled transit fair in the German tests ?

Brian

I have had my 2.8tdi Fiat Swift Royale with Alko chassis for 6 years and have 78.000 on the clock. Yes the gearbox let me down at only 3500miles (lost 5th gear) Had it replaced at Fiat Cartagena and took advise from fitter not to engage 5th. until engine at working temp. perfect since.
I get a genuine 32mpg after pump recalibration at T B Turbo's Lancaster and it drives like a new van, stability and roadholding are fantastic, although I have never owned a Hymer many freinds do and we travel many a mile together and they are all surprised at the performance of the Fiat.
It all boils down to horses for courses, what ever you choose there is always something better on another make and model.

(The highest rung on the ladder is the most dangerous)

Hi to all,

next year came up as chassis for mh. the new :

Ford Transit with PSA HDI engine...
Mercedes Benz Sprinter with ESP and new rear axle (avaiable till July 2006 )
Fiat Ducato with the Iveco Unijet engine...

all equiped with soot-filter and classed in Euronorm EN 4 ( pollution )

for info,

duc